MSN & Nurse Anesthesia DNP Admissions Webinar

Hi everyone, we're going to get started if you can hear me type in the chat box, the city or state that you are listening in from.

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Maryland lots of Philadelphia.

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Camden, New York, Alabama great welcome everyone.

My name is Jamie Bergstein. I'm the Associate Director of graduate admissions and marketing at Penn Nursing. Thank you all for taking some time today to learn more about the admissions process for our programs. Afew housekeeping tips for the web and are we recommend using a laptop or desktop computer with Chrome or fire Fox to fully participate in the session. Some event features and audio won't be available on mobile devices.

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Will be going over will be going over our MSN programs as well as our DNP in nurse anesthesia.

Wall focus mostly on the application requirements and tips and tricks for submitting your best application. Also briefly touch on some financial aid information.

And also take your questions at the end.

We offer a variety of MSN programs are nurse practitioner programs spanned the lifespan. As you can see, neonatal all the way up through adult Gerontology care. We have primary care. An acute care programs are nurse. Midwifery program is an advanced specialist program which means it's a dual degree so you will be certified.

To take the Women's Health exam and the nurse midwifery certification exam.

Are nurse practitioner programs have a core curriculum? We like to call the three peas pathophysiology, pharmacology, and physical assessment. You'll take theory courses specific to your population of research course.

And complete clinical rotations.

We also have two non clinical administration programs that focus on areas such as project management, healthcare consulting, an nursing education, the health leadership program is a bit more as a bit of more flexible curriculum. The nursing and Healthcare administration program has a bit more of a rigid curriculum with less electives and you also complete a practicum in the nursing and Healthcare.

Administration program

many people ask which program is right for me. We go off of the a PRN consensus model, which is about 10 years old. It was created to standardize programs and care across all advanced practice programs and offerings.

So basically it states that the focus of care is based on patient needs, not on the clinical setting. So this doesn't mean that if you are a primary care nurse practitioner, you can't work in a hospital setting. It just means that you have to practice in a primary care setting if you're a pediatric primary care nurse practitioner, you can only work with the pediatric population in a primary care setting.

You can specialize in certain areas such as oncology or palliative care, but again your scope of practice is based on the population an the acuity level.

We also have a variety of minors available for all of our MSN programs. Most are only three, maybe 4 classes, but keep in mind that some of our MSN programs only have space for one elective, or they don't have any electives, so some programs do fit in minors better than other programs. Some offer preparation for certification exam, for example, are adult oncology minor.

Or the transformative nurse Education Minor and others are just designed to increase your knowledge in a specific area.

Oliver MSN programs can be completed on a full time or part time basis. If you're applying for part time, you can start at any semester. You can start in our spring semester which is mid January or summer semester, which starts in late may or our fall semester, which starts in late August or early September. About 2/3 of our students are.

Completing an MSN program on a part time basis so it is a very popular option if you'd still like to work and go to school at the same time you have up to five years to complete your MSN program. Most people complete their MSN program on a part time basis in two to three years.

You can also attend our programs full time. Most are only about 12 to 14 months. Uhm? The family and midwifery programs are a bit longer at about a year and a half. If you're interested in attending full-time, pay attention to the program you're interested in. Each program has a specific full time start date.

Our acute care programs require work experience. Before you enroll. You can see on the screen what is required of you. You need to have at least one year of experience in your relevant population area. The neonatal program requires at least two years of experience and keep in mind that all work experience should be calculated after orientation or any probationary periods. This is important because sometimes orientation.

Could be two to three months.

A lot of people ask about primary care work experience. It's not required, but it is encouraged. Any work experience makes you more competitive. It helps inform your application and your interest in the program. Again not required for primary care, but encouraged, and can certainly go along way.

The next program I want to talk about is our DNP in nurse anesthesia. This program is only offered on a full time basis. It takes about three years to complete. You can enter with a BSN. You don't need any advanced degree and we're currently admitting about a year and a half in advance, so those applying this year fall 2020 you're applying for summer 2022 or 2021 classes.

Already fall, so keep this in mind if you're interested in applying in the future, you'll be applying about a year and a half in advance. There is a work experience requirement. You need to have at least two years of ICU or critical care work experience. Working with the most critically ill patients. There are several areas that don't count which are the neonatal ICU, emergency room, recovery room, step down, units, an interventional radiology.

We strongly prefer more than two years of work experience. We find applicants who have at least three to five years of work experience, or often the strongest applicants.

The curriculum is fully integrated between your didactic classes, your clinical rotations, and the simulation. There is the anesthesia component, of course, where you are learning all aspects of administering and caring for patients with anesthesia. And then there's also the DMP component at the end of your program. You will complete and present a scholarly project. In order to qualify you for the DMP degree.

Instead of breaking up the curriculum, half the first.

That app in the classroom in the last half in the clinical portion, the curriculum is intentionally woven together so your clinicals can build upon your didactic classes and vice versa.

The nurse anesthesia program operates on a primary site model which allows for students to be mentored and have a home base when they're not rotating throughout your specialty rotations. So this allows you to build a relationship with a specific clinical site and showcase the skills you've learned throughout your other rotations. Also, a lot of our students wind up finding jobs at their primary site.

They've done their clinicals because they wind up having such a great relationship and working on so many cases with fellow nurse a nest assist, sore anesthesiologists.

These are the application requirements for our MSN, an nurse. Anesthesia applicants. I will go over this in a little bit.

Even though we are primarily talking about the admissions process, I really want to highlight the pet advantage advantage an what makes her school so wonderful. So, first and foremost, our our clinical placements first, we guarantee you a clinicals patapon in mission so you don't have to find a clinical spot. We do that work for you. It is a huge undertaking and our faculty are very dedicated to making sure you have.

A wide variety of clinical options in diverse clinical options. We do have clinical sites in Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Delaware, so by the time of enrollment you will need a Pennsylvania license and you may need a New Jersey and Delaware license throughout the program for the nurse anesthesia program. We do also have a clinical site at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, MD. We will work with you if you do get that clinical site. There is a student apartment there, but.

That is another option for anesthesia students.

A lot of our clinicals are in the Philadelphia area or greater Philadelphia area. We feel a strong connection since we are in the heart of West Philadelphia. Clinicals focus on the medically underserved and there are often a lot of community collaborations between pet nursing and Philadelphia, which leads me to my community focused point. As I said, We're really focused on helping our neighbors.

For example, we have annual Women's Day every January where students, staff and faculty from Penn Nursing an from some other pen schools volunteer an assist.

Residents of West Philadelphia with really whatever they need. Some tough times. The day is focused, others it's just offering general primary care which is really fantastic for the residents, an also for our students and faculty and staff to interact and learn from our neighbors. There are national and international opportunities for our students. Some programs have partnerships with clinical sites around the country and even the world.

For example, students in the midwifery program have completed their last clinical rotation.

In New Zealand, Somalia, an Trinidadians Tobago.

We will have to see what happens in the next year or so with the state of the world and travel, but I am hoping that those programs will certainly resume.

There's a strong focus on leadership and scholarship and research Monger programs. We are certainly training you to be advanced practice nurses, but we're also training you to be leaders in your community. Students have the opportunity to translate their research into manuscripts in publications, attend and present a conferences as well. We also encourage students to be involved in policy and legislation. We are really.

I'm pushing for our students to be advocates on behalf of fellow nurses, advanced practice nurses and of course, patients. Every year, students had to the state capital to advocate on behalf of nurses and patients.

Can everyone hear me? I just want to check in and make sure my sound is still working.

Great, thank you.

OK, my first application bit for you is start your application early. The application is actually already open. It's been open as of July 1st. Starting the application early allows you to submit the most competitive application possible and gives you plenty of time. Gives you time to fix any errors or change anything that you want.

Even if you don't plan on applying right away, maybe you're still figuring out what program you're interested in. A more you're deciding between some just start the application, see what's required of you just so you're not scrambling at the last minute.

All of our programs require a resume. There is no preference for format or length requirement. Most applicants submit anywhere from a one to two page resume. We have a holistic application process an your resume is one way to showcase all the aspects of you. This is a non exhaustive list of what you can include on your resume. This is what most people include, so all professional experience.

If nursing is your second Karere Ann, you have significant experience. Another field or related experience. Another field you can certainly include that.

Volunteer experience an extracurricular activities. Honors and awards. Specific leadership experience, and the research or if he's been a clinical instructor or preceptor and you can certainly include any significant hobbies as well.

Each program requires a few essays. Here are the basic tips.

There's no format preference, but we do like it to be easy to read. Make sure that it's double space to 12 point font. My eyes will thank you. Make sure you proofread. Uhm, I know this sounds silly. You might be rolling your eyes. Of course. I proofread.

Believe me, every essay could use a proofreader, one or two spelling or grammatical errors won't drastically affect your application, but a well written essay can go a long way in the application process.

And you may have family or friends look over your essay, which is fine, but once they're done with giving you any suggestions, make sure you remove track changes from your document. The track changes will upload into the application and then you're unable to make any changes to your essay. Once you submit your application. So make sure to preview your essay ones uploaded, whatever you see in the preview is what we will see when reading the application.

In terms of content, we want to know the why. Why are you interested in this program? Why Penn nursing?

What specifically interests you about these programs? There are many ways an many programs and becoming A and a PRN or nurse midwife or nurse anesthetist. What is it about this program and what is it about? You know your background, your personal or professional background that has led you to this program. The strongest essays often aren't the most heart wrenching stories or come from the most seasoned nurses. These are the essays that can clearly articulate their passions.

Goals, reasons for wanting to become an advanced practice nurse.

We require at least three letters of recommendation. You can submit up to five. So if you are having a hard time deciding between some, don't worry, you can submit that 4th or 5th recommendation.

We like to see at least one academic reference. Uhm, someone who can comment on your ability to perform in a rigorous academic environment. It's OK if you've been out of school for awhile. Um. However, if you are still in contact with the faculty member advisor research assistant, that is perfectly fine. We will take older references.

Your employer should be a current supervisor, someone who knows you in your current job in a supervisory role, and then the professional recommendation can be a former, supervisor or colleague, someone else who knows you at a different professional capacity.

So overall.

We are looking for quality, not name recognition or Penn Alumni. It's great if you know.

An alumni of the program. If you know the CNO or Dean or president of your organization. But if they can only write a paragraph or two, that's not really going to help us. We'd much rather have someone whose name we've never seen before, but can write a really quality recommendation. Your recommendation should build upon other aspects of your application. Again, we have a holistic process we're looking for.

Qualities that would make you a strong an advanced practice nurse and all aspects an all materials of your application. It shouldn't just be a recap of your resume. We really want detail. We really want to know all of your wonderful strengths and qualities.

And the recommendations can be an opportunity to emphasize strengths and weaker parts of your application. So, for example, if you are not happy with your academics, if you have limited experience, you can have people comment on how well you did in a class or how strong you've been.

In your recent job and we only accept academic or professional recommendations, I am sure your best friend or parent or grandparent could write a wonderful recommendation for you, but we are not interested in those, so only academic or professional references.

The GRE scores are required but will be waived uhm, and probably waived for most of you. If your BSN GPA from an accredited institution in the United States or Canada has a cumulative GPA of 3.2 or higher on a 4.0 scale or you have a Masters degree from an accredited institution in the United States or Canada with the cumulative GPA of a 3.0 or higher on a 4.0 scale.

We don't recalculate GPS. We don't round up or we don't, and we don't consider additional coursework. Whatever is on your transcript is what we take in a 3.19999 is not a 3.2.

The waiver will be applied after you submit your application and its process by our office. There is nothing additional you need to do and if you do need to take the jirari, competitive applicants typically score in the 50th percentile on both the verbal and quantitative sections. Anna 4 on the analytical writing section.

The Tofel or eilts is required. If you are non native English speaker or if your undergraduate degree was not conducted in English, we have the Toefl and ielts minimum requirements on the screen.

Uh we do accept either or uhm so if you need to take one it we don't have a preference as to which one you take.

For your transcripts, we require transcripts from your BSN program and all additional degrees in coursework completed. So if your BSN is your second degree will need your first degree. If you have a Masters degree. If you took coursework one summer we will need all of those transcripts.

We can accept unofficial transcripts and they are strongly encouraged during the application process. We are currently not working in the office. Right now we're working from home and we will most likely be working from home for most of the fall semester, so we won't have regular access to anything Mail to our office, so we strongly encourage you to upload unofficial transcripts during the application process. Official transcripts are only required if you are admitted and you choose to enroll.

If you went to school outside the United States, you must have your transcript evaluated through Wes or CGFNS.

And I just want to touch on some other application items. We do require your RN or a PRN license. You should upload whatever you are issued. If you have a physical copy, a scan of that, a screenshot of the online certificate, whatever you have we will take again as a reminder. You will need a Pennsylvania license before you start the clinical sequence.

For our international applicants, if you don't have a Pennsylvania license, but you're late or United States license in the United States, but your license to practice in another country, you must complete the CGFNS certification exam and more information about that is available on our website.

We do require an introductory statistics class that just needs to show up on your transcript. There's nothing else you need to do. All of our programs interview competitive applicants. That is, by invitation only. We will contact you.

Now I want to touch briefly on tuition and financial aid.

We're going to keep things pretty general here. I'm not a financial aid officer. We have wonderful financial aid officers who are available for any specific questions. I just want to go over some general information about tuition and financial aid.

So basically your program cost depends on how many course units you take per semester. The average course offered at Penn is one course unit and that is equal to four semester hours at another University.

These are the tuition and fees for the 2020-2021 academic year. On the summer rate is a little less expensive, and this estimate for full time students includes personal an living expenses. Obviously that changes from person to person and there is a bit more of a breakdown on our website so you can get an idea of what we've estimated for everything.

For full time students, we do have a variety of scholarships. There are also some part of opportunities for scholarships for part time students. I do want to highlight our pen nursing scholarship. This is for Penn Medicine employees and now also extends to chop employees so those who work at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. If you take 4 classes in a calendar year. So that's January to December.

You will receive a scholarship.

For the cost of tuition for that 4th course. So it's basically buy three, get one free and that's In addition to any tuition benefits you receive as a Penn Medicine or chop employee. We also participate in the post 911 yellow ribbon program. If you are a veteran and if you are returned peace core volunteer. We also have a scholarship available for you.

Many uhm will most likely have to take out loans. There are a variety of loan options. There are federal loans. There are private loans. They all have their own pros and cons. I strongly encourage you to research them. Private loans might work better for you. Federal loans might work better for you. There are a lot of different nuances. As I've said, it really depends on your personal situation. Again, please reach out to the financial aid office.

If you have questions or like to discuss private versus federal loans, they are a great resource, just provided some general information here.

If you do take out federal loan federal loans on, there are a variety of repayment programs you may be aware of. The public service loan forgiveness program, which is offered to pretty much everyone who takes out a federal loan, may be eligible for that. There are also specific ones for nurses, so you can agree to work in a federally qualified health system, or.

Specific area of the country, city, and they will help pay back your loan. So these are also really great options if you do have to take out federal loans.

OK, and now almost at the end I'm want to discuss our application deadlines. So there are specific deadlines depending on when you will apply or what enrollment you're applying for, and then we have a rolling notification process. So if you are interested in the full time MSN program, regardless of summer fall, you need to apply by November 2nd, 2020.

I'm you do get an extra day since November 1st is on a Saturday and the latest notification for summer start would be mid February. The latest notification for false start would be mid April if you're interested in.

Completing the MSN on a part time basis starting in the spring, you'll need to apply by October 5th, 2020 and the latest you'll hear back is mid December.

If you're interested in the MSN program for part time, summer or fall, you have until March 15th, 2021 to apply.

And you'll hear back between late April and Mid Bay.

For a nurse Anesthesia Program, I'm sorry that should be November 2nd, 2020. And remember we are admitting for 2022 and you'll hear back in late April.

For our D&P applicants, all of the decisions are released at once for our MSN applicants. It's a rolling basis, so you Anna few colleagues might be applying at the same time you might hear back in two weeks and your colleague might not hear back for another month. So we just ask for your patience. We receive a lot of applications and we were view them on a rolling basis.

I also want to highlight some of our program specific webinars. Um, they're all posted on our website for you to register. These will really go into the nuts and bolts of the curriculum and the opportunities available for students in the programs we will be hosting more. Not every program has been scheduled yet, so stay tuned. But right now we have about half of our program scheduled, so those are coming up throughout the summer.

And fall.

Alright, so now is your turn to ask questions, so if you'd like to chat, type in the chat box. Uhm, I will be able to answer fairly general questions. If you have anything specific.

That you'd like to ask. We ask that you save that for a separate conversation.

Were there any international partnerships for students in the adult gerontology acute care program?

So I don't believe they have international clinicals. However, there are short-term study abroad options available for students through winter break or spring break or summer that all programs could take advantage of.

Can you apply for the nurse anesthesia program if you have two years by matriculation date? Yes, but again, just to emphasize that the strongest applicants typically have more than two years of work experience.

Our transfer credits allowed. Yes, you can transfer up to two classes. However, transfer credit isn't guaranteed and it's only available after, um, you are admitted an most. Classes that transfer over or usually pharmacology, pathophysiology or research.

My direct supervisor resigned from my place of work and my professor, who I worked with in research, resigned from my college. Is it valid to ask for a recommendation from them? Sure, they don't have to still be working at the place where you knew them from. Just make sure in their recommendation they explain how they know you or how they worked with you.

Do the majority of applicants who apply to the pediatric primary care program come in with work experience?

I'm a small number enter without excuse me without any work experience. Um, most people have at least a year or have just started working and are now applying to the program. Is this CCRN required for the nurse anesthesia program? No, it is not required.

Does the jirari waiver? Does it include international students so it only applies to applicants who received their BSN or Masters degree from the United States or Canada?

Any idea when the web and R will be held for the leadership DNP um coming soon will have that date shortly.

Does the nurse midwifery program permit students to complete the transformative nursing education minor so you can do the almost every minor with almost every program it it just might add time to your program so the minimum free program only has a few electives, so you might have to add a class or two.

Would you recommend sending Jerry scores? If your GPA is higher than 3.2 wave requirement? Uhm no. If you've, if you've already taken the Jerry and want to send them, sure, but it doesn't matter, and it's not required.

Is shadowing required for the nursing estesia program? With covid it's difficult to get shadowing experience. I totally understand. Um, it's not required. It's certainly helpful, but of course we're kind of.

Seeing how things play out so we completely understand. If you aren't able to get shadowing experience right now.

Have you seen nurse anesthesia anesthesia students ever do rotations in Somalia like you have for mentioned for them midwifery program? Uhm no, not that I know of. Uhm, well I think most clinicals for nursing this you just students are in this area an you might have the opportunity for a short-term study abroad program.

In regards to the recommenders, um, do they have to have an MSN or higher credentials? No, they do not.

For the question regarding tuition for full-time mental health nurse practitioner program without room and board, you can find that on our website.

If you need to take the Jerry or toefl or Ielts online, we can accept that. We do understand that there's limited in person options right now, but there are online options.

How many are interviewed per year for the nursing estesia program? Um and how many are offered enrollment? Uhm, so we typically interview around 50 to 60 each, so we we get about 100 and 22130 will interview maybe 50 to 60 and the enrollment is about 28 to 30.

Each year we do have a small wait list that can change every year, but you can be placed on the wait list for the anesthesia program.

Regarding regarding the coursework page in the application, the coursework such as Anatomy 12, etc. Are they required prerequisites or is only statistics required so for the MSN programs, only statistics and the nursing a seizure program only this statistics class is required. We understand that not every BSN program

offers you know to anatomy and Physiology courses. Some don't require chemistry anymore, so there is an option to say that you did not take that, but you still need to provide all of that course work in on the course work page.

What is the average GPA for admitted students? The average GPA is about a 3.5.

My CGF Anas application is on hold due to Covid, will that affect my application? I can't really say right now. There's a long time before you may enroll so things may change will just kind of have to evaluate it as we get closer to the admission date.

Again, for those asking about specific webinars for specific programs were still in the process of scheduling them, we will have them throughout the summer fall and you will be notified when they are scheduled.

Our applicants able to sign you simultaneously. It's tougher to say apply to the full time and part time program an.

Have the ability to choose which program works best for the applicant. If accepted to both? Uh, no. You need to apply to either full time or part time at time of application. If you are offered an interview and during the interview it comes out that maybe you'd like to go full time or part time that something you could speak with the program director at that time. If after you want to change, that's a conversation you'll have to have with the program director since we.

Guarantee clinical spots there.

A limited amount for each program, so it's not guaranteed that you could switch full time or part time.

Our interviews done in person or virtually so we always give.

Apple kins the option to have a virtual web and R or weapon. Our interview or interview by phone if they can't make make it to campus moving forward. They will most likely be over the phone or video chat since we most likely won't want to bring a lot of people to campus.

For questions about statistics for each program, we typically get around anywhere from 20 to 40 applicants for each program an we enroll. Um, there's about a 40% admit rate for each program.

With courses taken at multiple schools, should the total GPA be calculated or only the GPA at the school where your degree was received? We taken for the jirari waiver and for your official GPA we take the GPA at the score your degree was received. So whatever it says on your transcript is what we're going by. Again, we have a holistic application process and will take into account.

Your entire academic background.

Do you focus on more of an upward trend in the GP a? I'm a second degree RN. First BS was less than a 3.0. Both RN degrees were 3.8. Yes again, going back to the holistic application process, we're looking at all parts of your application will absolutely focus on an upward trend. We understand that especially for second degree students may be your first degree. You didn't do that great. You weren't happy in that program.

Improvement is definitely a good thing.

Um, we will accept a Biostatistics course that's acceptable.

What can a perspective student do to be super competitive in the nursing? A seizure program? I'll just answer that generally, um, one do your research. You know, really make sure this career path this program is right for you and make sure you can explain that in your essay. Your essay goes a really long way because this is the first glimpse into you as an applicant and it's what we are part of. What we're evaluating? Should we bring you in for an interview for?

So we want to see that you can clearly articulate your interests in your professional goals.

Obviously, the end goal is to be a nurse, anesthetist, nurse, Necess, or nurse practitioner nurse midwife. You don't have to be super specific saying I want to work in this hospital or this organization in this area, but we want to have a general idea of what you want to do with your degree. Academics are important. Again, we have a holistic application process, so if your academics aren't the greatest, you know making sure that you one take the GRA. If you need too and have recommendations, focus.

Hum.

On your academic skills, your recommendations are very important, so making sure that your recommenders really focus on the qualities that would make you a good advanced practice nurse. So leadership, ability, flexibility, creative thinking, critical thinking, academic skills, making sure that they focus on that as well. I know shadowing is difficult right now, but if you have the opportunity to speak with advanced practice, nurse in the area that you want to go in, that can also go along way.

To show that you've done your research and that you're really interested in that in this program.

If you were able to shadow a si RNA, how many hours were would you recommend? There's no specific hour cap. I would say most people shadow maybe like two or three shifts. Uhm, that that seems to be.

A good amount of time to get a good idea of the profession and what you'd be doing.

Are there any other questions?

To clarify the required minimum experience for the nurse anesthesia program is 2 years, yes, will they not consider your application if you are one year?

If you'll have two years by time of enrollment, you'll be considered again.

More than two years is preferred.

For the GRE exam, should we take the general one? Yes, we just need the general GRE exam.

What a recommendation letter from the person we shadowed be acceptable if they know you pretty well. If you've only known them through shadowing.

You know they I wouldn't have it be one of the three recommendations. Maybe it could be the 4th or 5th, but if they know you pretty well it could be, you know, one of the three.

Are any classes offered on line? For example, if we enroll in A minor or any electives on line, there are a few classes offered online. For example, the adult oncology minor is typically on line for the most part, all of our programs you can expect to be on campus, we will see what happens in the future. Our fall plan is all of our classes will be online an only the simulations and clinical rotations will be in person.

That is just for the fall.

Since you're applying at least a year out, you could potentially be on campus for all of your classes.

What does a class schedule look like for a full time student? Is it 5 days a week with clinicals on the weekends? I'm classes are offered every day of the week and during the morning, afternoon and evening, so you can expect to be on campus full time, maybe 2 to three days a week, maybe 4 days depending on your schedule. Clinicals we try and coordinate them with the classes they might be on weekends, they could be during the week.

Yes, I did say the next nurse anesthesia classes for the summer of 2022. We admit about a year and a half in advance.

I'm no, I'm just to emphasize you don't need work experience for the primary care programs.

What's the typical class time for part time students might be on campus, depending on how many classes you're taking, maybe one or two days a week. Um, if I work Monday through Friday 8:00 to 4:30, will I be able to work with my classes or will I have to drop my work status to part time? Some classes do start after 5, not many, so you might have to leave work early, or arrange your schedule.

Do you think it's possible to work?

Um not. I'm sorry. I'm not sure what PR per diem or part time while being a full time student. Yes, it is certainly possible.

Hey, you know you're it's. It's a juggling act it's you know you have work. You have your school work and homework and studying and of course you have a social life.

But you know it really, it really depends on your goals and and what you could handle. Some students, if they're going full time, they will just get a per diem job, or maybe a short term on campus job to supplement their income. Most full-time students don't work part time just because of the sheer workload.

What's the attrition rate for the nursing astasia program? I don't know that off the top of my head, but if you want to send us an email can look up that information.

OK, well I think that just about wraps things up.

I need additional questions. Uhm, you can email admissions at nursing.upenn.edu. We're happy to answer any other additional questions you have. Again, stay tuned for more program specific webinars. Thank you all so much for tuning in and you'll get a recording of this in a few days. Good luck with your application and we look forward to working with you.